Agathe from Style Bytes, mentioned in H&M Magazine as a ‘Force of Fashion’ which is wonderful, however, the same publication writes:
“Enough already with this slap-dash copy, blurry digital photos, and zero knowledge. Will 2008 be the year that fashion bloggers raise the bar?”
Post from Style Bytes:
The way they write off fashion bloggers annoys me a little.
First of all because so many fashion bloggers out there front H&M without getting anything in return. As a fashion blogger I do get some perks, occasional free stuff or discounts I wouldn´t have gotten otherwise, but never anything from H&M which is probably the brand I write the most about. I´ve even been in contact with an H&M designer giving them my tips of what I´d like to see in stores as a H&M shopper without being offered anything. I don´t expect to get things for free, I write about what I like anyway, it´s more of an observation. With all the coverage H&M get from bloggers I bet they owe a good percentage of their sales to them and should be careful about what they say about them.
Secondly, blogging is a way anybody can express themselves. Having to have the right background or the right photographic skills to blog would ruin what blogging is all about. What I like about blogs is that I can get inspiration from all kinds of people from all around the world. If I wanted to see polished pictures of perfect models I´d go buy Vogue. Blogs are an alternative to glossy magazines.
Now I doubt this is written by a high profile journalist or that H&M Magazine really weighs much in the industry, but it is handed out in every H&M store around the world and it is saying something negative about someone they probably should try to take better care of.
out of sheer curiosity and the sake of discussion, i just wanted to question this concerning some statements in agathe’s post:
does having some credentials (i.e. being a good photographer, or having a professional background in fashion, for instance) make a blog less legitimate in the eyes of readers? does a blog lose authenticity if it’s not coming from the people, from someone who’s doing it for love, and not money?
is something more “real” and “authentic” because it’s not as “perfect” or as polished as what might be put forward by professional media, or by the marketing of designers, and so forth?
if it’s from the people, should it be allowed to lack standards or polish? should it get a pass on it’s foibles (for me, bad photography or terrible writing) because it’s not from a “professional” source?
it would be nice if great blogs were eventually considered by the culture at large as an adjunct or addition to traditional media…not necessarily an alternative, per se. if the alternative is second rate, it’s not really a worthy alternative, at least not in my mind.
as for polished and its possible connection to popularity, scott schumann’s “sartorialist” is a very, very popular blog, and has a very polished look, evoking the imagery and aesthetic of vogue (which i believe style.com is associated with?). people like polish. i am not overall a huge fan of schumann’s aesthetic, however, i do like polish and strong, careful aesthetics when it comes to reading blogs, whatever they may be about. setting a high standard for every level of one’s online presence means a lot to me, even if their aesthetic does not exactly match my own. i’m more likely to give authority to a blogger who thinks through every level of their presence and each dispatch they publish.
i’d be interested to hear what others think about these sorts of things. this was not meant as any sort of attack on agathe…her words just got me thinking.
I think blogs with great writing and aesthetics will naturally rise to the top of the blogger “food chain”, and attract the biggest audiences, but there’s still room for less sophisticated ones, as well. It’s the beauty of the virtual world.
I think as time goes on, the more sophisticated fashion blogs will rival traditional print media; it’s already happening in the news realm, since younger audiences gravitate to the internet instead of TV.
We’ll see interesting times ahead!
This post struck a bit of a nerve with me, because I know that photography is not my strong suit. In fact, I’m not even interested in taking pictures for the blog – I do it because of many compelling requests from readers.
Kind of in answer to Tricia’s question, I guess I never considered my blog anyway to be in any way connected to fashion magazines – it’s more of a personal conversation. In a personal conversation, the pictures are whatever the person has at hand.
Regarding writing, while the writing in magazines is often stellar, not so for fashion books. IMHO an average writer, or a technical writer, can go toe-to-toe with many of the books out there in any case.
One last thing blogs have that traditional media doesn’t: we can be influenced. We listen. I say this all the time, but people were made to be in community and then our world just tells them to shut up and listen to the experts.
It seems a bit hypocritical in the ways that they’re approaching blogging from two different and clashing viewpoints. I think it’s weakening their views a bit to call fashion bloggers the “Force of Fashion” and then to later refer to them as a “Trend.” Trends can be forceful, but I think that blogs have long proven that they’re not going to be something going anywhere, anytime soon. Are they perhaps a generational trend, like ‘zines (which are still around)? Do they surpass a trend if they gain legitimacy?
It bothers me how they define Fashion Amateurs– sure, there may be a lesser knowledge about fashion technique and design, but an understanding of the realities of the aesthetic don’t necessarily need education to understand, or to gain knowledge.
rebecca:
you say that bloggers cannot be influenced…but as i see it, that is *exactly* what is happening when some enter into relationships with some advertising networks. the content of their blog, which used to be a “personal conversation” becomes increasingly dominated by editorial content that is perhaps not what they would have previously posted of their own volition. the authentic, conversational tone of their blog is being taken over and is directly influenced by the contracts they are signing. or at least, that’s how it feels to the reader.
anyone can write about fashion, or really, any subject, but what sets some apart from the rest? for me (and by no means does anyone have to agree) it’s writing (and a visual appearance) that speaks of critical thinking. that speaks of overall quality.
as for photography…not everyone cares about that stuff, i guess. but coming from a background in art, photography, and fashion, it’s something i really care about, and for me, it does matter.
so, all that to say, i do think that raising the bar some isn’t a bad idea, in any facet of life, even blogging. it could be personally raising the bar by educating oneself on a subject, working hard to express themselves in the way they want, through words or visuals, whatever. neo-platonic ideals, if you will.
as for the original post and H&M vs. bloggers…well, to me it feels like the two pieces of editorial referred to were probably written by two different people. but again, i am not sure that what is being considered a harsh statement is really *that* harsh. i actually think that when that statement is looked at critically, it’s got some truth to it. nothing is hurt by raising standards or raising the bar, on any level. sounds like a great personal or collective challenge.
rebecca: oops, did you mean “can” or “can’t” be influenced? i wasn’t clear, from what you wrote, what you were trying to say… may have misinterpreted.
obviously i’m feeling a bit impassioned about all this.
At this point, I find it kind of funny when I read the quote you posted from H&M… if “blogs” by their very nature implied shoddy writing and bad pictures, then why would so many big media set up their own?
there are some really great points brought up in this discussion. i personally am fascinated by how blogs are evolving. first as a personal online diary, to becoming sophisticated resources.
the quote above is actually patronizing because it doesn’t take into account the evolutionary/revolutionary nature of blogs. i personally do wish to raise the bar on my blog, but i had to go through the process of learning how to find my online voice how blogs work, accumulate an audience, etc. also, the interactivity is one element that publications don’t have.
blogs are more about discourse than dispersal of information. as far as writing and photography is concerned, that’s only one side of the ‘bar raising’…
perhaps the magazine is missing the point of blogs, and by ‘raising the bar’ in fashion, blogs can help people personalize their own style, and thoughts of how fashion affects their own lives, rather than mindlessly following trends dispersed by the ‘fashion leaders’
Yes it is correct
Perhaps the magazines r missing the point of blogs, and by ‘raising the bar’ in fashion, blogs can help people personalize their own style, and thoughts of how fashion affects their own lives, rather than mindlessly following trends dispersed by the ‘fashion
leaders’
http://www.filepmotwary.blog.com
jennine:
well, in the case of your blog, and a lot of blogs, they have become what i’d look at as a personalized dispensation of information. do you not provide a resource one can look back to for information, perhaps about upcoming designers, for starters? it’s really both…discourse AND informational. the two together are what make the medium special, and blogs like yours different than the usual suspects (that h&m is probably referring to).
i think it’s fab that through blogs we can see how trends break down on a real level, and talk about it (hopefully critically, in the best of times and blogs), that’s great, sure.
but i believe there’s room for both information and personaliation, AND discourse…and again, there’s space to move up and improve. with anyone, for anyone. myself included. it’s a good thing, not a bad thing, in my eyes.
blogging is still finding itself, within it’s own ranks, and in the culture at large, as evidenced by the quotes in question (from the h&m magazine). i’m just urging people to shoot for the very best personal best they can. raising the bar helps us all.
tricia.. i really agree with everything you are saying… i don’t think “personal” equates with “crap”. even stylebytes itself is undergoing a transformation as she has her husband helping her instead of her old webcam pics she used to do. it’s completely opened up her blog.
as a creative professional, one thing i have learned is there is ALWAYS always room for aesthetic improvement, that it’s more a matter of knowing when to let go than achieving a ‘finished’ product.
what’s so great about following blogs is that there is so much to learn, and it’s great to see the learning process occur in the blogger.
i think naturally, the ones who are interested in raising the bar, are going to be the ones who survive, because they are the ones who are continually going to have things to post about.
What an awesome discussion. I came across this blog via stylebubble.
I really appreciate intelligent conversation on this topic. As a writer and designer, I’m always trying to find a balance when blogging. I’ve been criticized by some fellow writers (those I attended college with) for blogging, although they claim it was all in good fun, sometimes I wonder – and to blog about fashion, well that garners more snickers of snark. I of course quiet the naysayers, and continue to blog about the things I find interesting. I’m not looking for acceptance, I’ve been attending some shows at fashion week NY for some time now, thanks to the relationships I had long before I started to blog – BUT I find nothing wrong with fashion bloggers at the shows, it keeps things balanced.
I’ve learned with blogging it takes time to find your “voice” much like writing, so there will be some mishaps, and missteps but it’s beautiful to watch a blogger grow – at least I think; and I agree those who raise the bar for themselves are the ones who last. I’m a firm believer that change is the only constant, so I welcome the challenge – it’s healthy and fun.
As far as the debate between fashion bloggers and traditional media; I liken it to that of literary fiction vs commercial – it’s all subjective.
I really believe blogging is a thing of its own – something that is totally different from other kinds of media. Relationships between bloggers and readers, readers and bloggers, conversations like this one…That’s what blogging’s really about. I have to agree that the bad photography and so-called zero knowledge (although no one with zero knowledge could mantain a fashion blog…They may not be a fashion insider, but they at least have opinions and interest in the topic)is not necessarilly a bad thing. It’s interesting to see how people in all walks of life perceive fashion, and how it is present in their lives. I think the blogging community is, for the most part, a wonderfully open, friendly, and creative thing, and that it’s definitely here to stay.
I don’t want to offend anyone, but IMHO this is making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, H&M made a stupid statement, and it serves them right if they get some grief about it. But even if they didn’t hear a single complaint, in the next issue they’ll probably go back to listing hot blogs like they did in the last issue! This isn’t serious journalism and if it was, so what? There are always going to be people who don’t like blogs, like there are people who hate GPS and email. I just hope no one felt TOO hurt by this silly store’s silly “publication.”
It’s all a mere case of stealing one’s thunder, if you ask me. Granted, there are some bloggers that fail the grade of editorial appropriateness, but as in life, one should be open for improvement.
I, for one, put my ego on the shelf by asking a reputable marketing expert to critique my gift registry site. She in turn released her “Hounds” on me, who had me for breakfast, lunch, and dinner! But in the end, I was no worse for wear; I accepted the constructive (albeit blunt) criticism, and revamped the site to a glowing reaction from my readers.
At the end of the day, I consider the source; is it coming from an industry expert, or a person in full-blown hater mode?
really.. i hate h&m magazine!
Its only shit in that “magazine”.
and i dont give a f***ing damn shit about that article.
it just makes me angry.. *argh*
If “blogging” wasn’t relevant media then I guess Chanel wouldn’t have extended invitations to some well known bloggers to see how Chanel No. 5 is produced.
-h
Oh Please..H&M? Two washes and be sure the color is gone. The quality is poor that’s why everything there is so cheap.
Keep up the good work girl! Lovin’ your blog!
I agree with miss j. H&M questioning the polish of a blog? LOL.
Obviously, those two pieces were written by two separate people, or they have a very poor editor.
But more importantly, this conversation has crossed many areas of interest for me.
I think when people think of a fashion medium, they immediately think of the glossy magazines, rich in arresting images, where you can’t tell what is advertising and what is editorial.
Many moons ago, rich content and wonderful 1st person essays about fashion, culture, art and anything else the writer experienced were common in big magazines such as Vogue. Read essays by Dodie Kazanjian.
These pieces of prose have given way to service pieces-top tn fall trends, best beauty buys for under $10, etc.
The beauty of blogs is that in one single blog, you can find a service piece, and a 1st person essay, and stream of consciousness or freewriting, or just one arresting image.
Yet people expect them to have the polish of a magazine.
But from a pure user perspective, your blog does have to be readable, scanable and interesting looking. People don’t read online the way they do print. So pretty and intelligent blogs get my attention. I can only handle so many” Look at this new IT bag” blog.
I really feel that the profile of the fashion blogger is rising, and I’m very interested to see what the effect will be. Although I have always aspired and still do, to working at a magazine, the future of the magazine seems a little undecisive, and I think that with the rise of fashion blog, and the rise of the awareness of the fashion blog, the internet may be the direction of the future in fashion journalism.
Exciting, interesting and scary times…
Love this blog by the way Jennine, it just enforces the sense of community that us fashion bloggers need crave(okay, maybe I crave).
S xx
Sorry it took me so long to get back here!
Tricia, I did mean bloggers can be influenced. Personally, I get frustrated with so much of our lives being lived in big rooms with one guy talking and everyone else listening, which is kind of a variation of mainstream media: sitting in front of a TV set or whatever. In blogging, there’s room for discussion, we don’t have to see everything exactly the same, I can bring up a topic and someone could disagree with what I say or offer an alternate view and I could change my way of thinking (or dressing). It’s relational.
Of course I do aspire to improve, in my writing, my presentation, and my technical skills. Always working against that, since my time is finite, is the pull of seeing what other people are talking about.
I guess I was only thinking of being influenced in terms of being influenced by the readers, as opposed to being influenced by advertisers, etc.
This little snarky attack by H&M really annoyed me. I felt it showed their total ignorance regarding both the evolutionary nature of fashion media, and their lack of interest/knowledge in their customer base. The chances are the H&M demographic are blog-aware and may even write their own, so essentially the were patronising their very own customers.
It also annoyed me because H&M aren’t exactly producing original fashion design…can you say CHLOE??
Maybe H&M should be looking to raise their own bar in terms of ‘design’.