Since its inception in 2009, Get Off My Internets has been one of the most controversial sites among fashion and lifestyle bloggers. Its editors critique and examine the posts and personalities of bloggers, and that's putting it lightly. From tongue-in-cheek call outs to cringe-worthy speculation, GOMI has become to fashion bloggers what National Enquirer is to celebrities (sans alien auctions). We had a chance to talk to Lancelle, one of GOMI's contributors to get the scoop on why they love to target fashion bloggers, where they think we're headed and how to avoid getting covered by them.
What do you think about the fashion and lifestyle blogging landscape at this time? Have you noticed any major changes or trends since the beginning of GOMI?
Fashion and lifestyle blogging is more materialistic than I've ever seen it. It's been said on GOMI again and again that there are legitimate shopping addictions out there being fed and coddled by blog readers. Every time a post about a purchase gets comments, that blogger thinks to themselves, “This purchase was worthwhile because it got me attention, comments, etc., etc.” Meanwhile, there might be a significant amount of debt being accrued in the background. Even if there isn't, I wonder often if bloggers buy something because they actually want the object or because they feel a competitive drive to have it first and show it off.
Get Off My Internets is a bit like a tabloid publication staring bloggers we all know. How did you develop this approach?
Alice gets all the credit for developing GOMI. I think it's obvious why we take a certain approach with bloggers. That is, that bloggers can't have their cake and eat it too. They can't be public figures and expect everyone to love them. The good thing about GOMI is that it's there if they want to read it and if they don't want to, they don't have to. Several former GOMI targets haven't been featured in a long time because they took note of what was being said about them and made positive changes. A few have even thanked GOMI for pointing out their problematic posts or habits.
It seems like a lot of the fuel behind the fire comes from the comments and forums of GOMI. Why do you think people love to hate these bloggers so much?
I think that 50% of the readers on GOMI legitimately hate a few GOMI targets, but the other 50% just like having a forum to express constructive criticism. As GOMI has grown, the comments may seem to have gotten more harsh, but that's only because there are more people making them. If you read the content of what the commenters say, they're usually dead on in their analysis. GOMI commenters are by and large educated, savvy blog readers.
What fashion blogs do you like?
The best fashion and lifestyle blogs pick one or two things and do them really well. Atlantic-Pacific deserves all the hype she gets because she dresses well and takes photos of what she wears. The end. A good blogger is authentic and down-to-earth in genuine way. Any type of faux-genuine behavior, real or implied, gets labeled immediately. (The Daybook gets called on this a lot.) There's a fine line between being real and trying to be real.
I’m sure you’re no stranger to criticism yourself. How do you deal? Any advice for taking criticism, negative feedback, etc?
You have three choices when you are criticized. You can learn from it, dismiss it or try to respond to it. I recommend the first option. If bloggers want their blogs to be their business, they should conduct themselves accordingly and improve when possible. The good news is that if people are talking about you, you're still relevant to some extent. The bad news is you might only still be relevant because people love to hate you.
What advice would you give to bloggers looking to steer clear of your watchful eye?
The same themes come up on GOMI again and again and most of the time, bloggers are targeted because they do something stupid or out-of-touch or both. Pretending you are something you're not? Bad. Acting entitled or taking readers for granted? Bad. Lying and getting caught? Bad. Offending a large group of people with an offhand comment or post? Bad. The same things that would get you criticized in real life get you criticized on GOMI.
So what do you think? Do you think Get Off My Internets is right to call out bloggers when they seem out of touch, or is it just plain mean-spirited? Let us know in the comments.
Image by Katie Tegtmeyer
I hadn’t heard of GOMI but I’m really intrigued, and interested in learning more about them. I’ll head over to their blog soon.
As an opinion columnist, I have been torn to shreds by some people online – some of it fair, intelligent arguments, some of it vicious attacks, and sometimes it’s just plain racist like “go back to where you come from” – clearly one has to know what to do take seriously and not.
And I think the advice to learn from it is good, and also if they’re talking about you, surely it must be some reflection of your relevance. But of course nobody likes to be criticized.
Anyway, really fun post and I’m heading over there to check out there site.
Thanks for the comment Natasha! Take a look around on GOMI, I’ll be interested to hear what you think. It can become addictive to read, is often hilarious but always snarky. We have all faced criticism at different times in our lives, and I think it’s interesting to see what it does in the blogging world, since most of the communication is positive.
Truth: I’ve gone to GOMI every single day since you posted this interview…multiple times in a day even.
You’re right it has become incredibly addictive, and yes, it’s hilarious. But I do feel guilty because I can only imagine how hurtful it must be to the bloggers who are being criticized.
I wonder if the bloggers who are under a lot of scrutiny on the site ever respond?
And also, many of the observations are right on the money. Eeek…sometimes the truth ain’t pretty. 😉
This is exactly how I feel! I sat and read for an entire day after this was posted, and it’s highly entertaining. And as you said, a lot of the observations are accurate, but I won’t pretend that it wouldn’t sting if those things were said about me!
I think it’s totally okay.
Truth told I have never heard of or read get off my Internets. Maybe that is because I do not read sites that put others down or talk about people.
Am I missing something? I don’t understand how attacking others is a productive thing. It seems rather high school and I graduated from there a long time ago. Or is it more Mean Girls?
Everyone has the right to their opinions and beliefs. So, this blog and the writers are well within their rights to blog about whatever but, at what cost.
If a person is buying clothes and going in debt, I completely agree that is not a wise choice, but what does laughing and talking about them do? Make you feel bigger than someone else? I guess.
I read this interview 3 times and I see there is suppose to be “constructive criticism.” So, before I commented I quickly opened a window and checked out the site.
“Fashion bloggers you hate” “You are not the first mommy” Yeah, I don’t do putting others down.
I have seen too much and been through even more to allow negativity like this in my social world.
I don’t think you’re alone in that Sharon, in fact I’m sure you’re not. There’s definitely something to be said for feeling at a loss as to what negativity contributes to the fashion blogging community. It’s not necessarily productive, but I think it keeps things interesting.
This comment is why I wish there were like buttons on these comments.
I am in totally agreement with you. I have no desire to visit the site. To each his own. If you don’t like the blog don’t visit.
I hadn’t heard about it either so I decided to take a look.
1. It’s not only about fashion blogging.
2. I’ve found that most of the criticisms are things that many readers of the various blogs are thinking and/or feeling, but never say because of “blogging etiquette”.
I think fashion bloggers in particular subscribe to this “if you have nothing nice to say…” school of thought, but essentially that’s unproductive. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism and putting anyone that doesn’t agree with you down to jealousy smacks of immaturity.
The fashion blogging community would be much better off if they were more willing to be open and courteous about their criticisms. There is a difference b/w body snarking and saying, “that outfit combination doesn’t suit your body type.” Unfortunately, bloggers can’t seem to make the distinction, and it has everyone walking on eggshells.
Not everyone likes everything. That’s okay, but this idea that anyone who doesn’t like you is “just jealous” is unhealthy and narcissistic. I really appreciate that GOMI is willing to say no, that’s not okay. Sure, they’re mean. Sometimes WAY too mean, but if we were all honest with each other in the first place, there wouldn’t be a market for their particular brand of commentary.
major ditto to your whole reply 🙂
2. I’ve found that most of the criticisms are things that many readers of the various blogs are thinking and/or feeling, but never say because of “blogging etiquette”.
I love GOMI! Good for them to call out some of the bs people post/do on blogs just to get page views or sponsors. I think the real message is to stay true to your vision.
That’s a great way to look at it Stephanie 🙂
I’d never heard of GOMI before, either, and I have to say… I kind of love it. I mean, it’s harsh feedback, but it’s feedback, and you can cry about it, or you can integrate it.
Besides, haters are almost always a good sign. Know what I mean? Hates that give you valid feedback from your demo’s viewpoint? Bonus.
I am a ‘lurker’ to GOMI for years now!! LOL..I feel they have an outlet for people to say what they feel about bloggers, some comments are genuine constructive criticism, some are just plain jealousy! But yes, it is a fun place. And lets face it, we ALL have some blogs we love and some we really want to GOMI!!! LOL! Good post IFB!
I think you’re right – for the most part it’s just a place where people can take fashion blogging a little less seriously. Do you think you’d feel differently if you found yourself on the site?
I think it would bug me if I were on the site, but then I’d step back and think about whether or not anything they said was valid before I started flipping out and suing people.
Oddly enough there’s an article in May’s MC about actor/audience perspectives and how you can’t see when you’re being obnoxious even when it’s obvious to everyone else.
I think the point is that sometimes it’s not that bloggers are being purposefully annoying. Sometimes they just need someone to tell them, and they’re more than willing to change the behaviour. But since no one ever says anything because it’s against blogger etiquette to say ANYTHING negative, they never know, and their readers just keep mumbling to themselves. GOMI is just a place where readers and bloggers can stop mumbling, and start frankly discussing the blogs they read and the problems that exist.
Criticism plays an essential role in the development of any creative work , in our case fashion blogging which express’s the bloggers own taste and style in fashion & that diverse according to the bloggers diversity ( age , country, intereste , job, hobbies…etc ), in general criticising should be polite ” no hurtful words or names ” , done on the blogger own request & if you don’t like a fashion blog, just don’t visit it ! let it’s owner express there love 2 fashion & enjoy what there doing, don’t treat them bad & show them that there style is worthless ,coz by doing that you’ll not make any different, you’ll only spread negativity & make people feel bad.
Boy, there sure are a lot of crickets on this post. It’s been almost 3 hours and only one person has commented. I just want to say brava for IFB writing about GOMI and thanks for putting me on to their site. Blogging is really in it’s infancy and learning how to navigate the landscape is an ever evolving learning curve. I think the minute money starts exchanging hands between bloggers and brands so many ethical things come into play. (content aside) Looking forward to reading more feedback from this post.
Thanks for speaking up kd! I thought this post might leave a few people scratching their heads – and I am really interested to hear more of the community’s feedback!
Surprised to see GOMI featured here, but I do love the site! The commentary is hilarious. Blog snark at its best.
I have visited them twice, and that was ‘coz suddenly I woke up to a lot traffic from them, one morning. That’s how I discovered them in the first place.
I have not enjoyed the negativity in that place. I can appreciate her point of view (above) but I think everyone has an option of not reading the blogs they don’t like. GOMI is more like “mean girls club” in my opinion.
If you have something to say (aka constructive criticism), then have the balls to say to their face (on their respective blogs) and if not then its plain bitching behind their back.
Hey there Tanvi, I’m really sorry to hear you were targeted (I searched for the article and was unable to find anything) anyway, IFB has been a target as well, and while at first I was mad someone would say anything negative, but what they did say, they kind of had a point. But in the forums, there are some commenters that say things that make no sense at all like IFB has lost touch because we focuson Professional Blogging, when that’s 100% the reason why I started it, so I just ignore it.
Either way, the thing I learned the most, is once I started putting myself out there, I had to take the good with the bad, and treat myself like a brand. If bloggers have a right to say they disagree with a brand, they have a right to say they disagree with other bloggers. We can take it in if it makes sense, it’s a learning experience, if not, you learn to ignore it.
I agree with you Jennine. Actually what they are said about me on the site was not even rude. It actually didn’t make much sense so I simply ignored it. My outrage was due to what I had read about other bloggers and how it was being said.
I agree with you that when you put yourself out there you have to take the good with the bad. I only hope that if someone has something truly constructive to say then they would say it directly to me, rather than having a forum about it behind my back.
I have had people give me constructive criticism time and again on the blog. I appreciate my readers more when they can say what they feel outright, without being mean or using slanderous language.
Of course you cannot please everyone. So you learn to ignore and move on.
I just learned about GOMI thanks to this post and I have been lurking on it for the past two hours. SO addictive. It also helps me evaluate myself as a blogger. Am I coming off as fake? Hopefully not! haha
I’d never heard of this website, but now I’ve been mining the archives and I’m FASCINATED. I feel like it’s a how to guide for bloggers on how not to be obnoxious.
Hi Cate! I think this is an excellent point. It’s a good reminder to remember to be yourself on your blog! (of course, what happens when you are yourself and they still call you out?)
honestly, no idea really. but I think that sometimes “yourself” is the problem, ie. some of the racist/classist things that some bloggers have said.
It’s an opportunity to examine yourself and see where you can improve I guess. sites like these are why i will never make money from my blog. it will always be MINE, and I can do what I want with it, and I’ll never be dependent on other people for revenue/hits.
That’s the problem with blogs as business. It stops being about the blogger and their interests, and starts being about what the readers expect or demand. I can’t deal with that.
Like tanvi I’ve beed featured on GOMI and it wasn’t a pleasant experience. Did I learn from it? Well, I learned that my breasts droop, by socks leave marks on my ankles and my clothes do not fit me the way they fit a 22 year old 100 pound model. I also learned to steer clear of GOMI in the future so if I find out they’ve written about my blog again I won’t go see what they’re saying. The only good thing I can say about the site is that they didn’t take it to me but left all their nastiness on their own forum.
I think it’s very easy to be critical, especially in a forum like GOMI where it’s encouraged. I’m also happy that IFB has written about them because if you have a blog, especially a personal style blog, eventually someone is going to be unpleasant and you’re going to have to deal with it. Let me tell you IT HURTS! But you can’t let it stop you.
Sorry to hear about your experience, Heather, and Tanvi’s. It’s terrible that they commented on your breasts and your size. As an older blogger who has gained a bunch of weight from some medication I took (and now can’t seem to lose), I understand what it’s like to not look like a young model but still love fashion and want to write about it.
The world isn’t made up of ONLY pretty young girls with lots of money to buy designer clothes. I think it’s great that a variety of ages, shapes, and tastes are represented on personal style blogs. It shows people who aren’t perfect that they’re not alone and that they can participate and have fun with fashion. I hope you don’t have more bad experiences and I’m glad that you haven’t let it stop you from expressing yourselves.
Since they say they hope people learn from the criticisms, I wonder what they expected you to learn from what sound like horrible, unnecessary comments? I have never heard of them either and don’t think I’ll be checking it out after reading your comment. Glad you didn’t let it stop you being you.
Well, according to the GOMI forum, I should be one of those “headless” bloggers. Now, I’m not the prettiest girl on the block, but I’ve never been called ugly – nor do I consider myself so. They also think my poses are awkward and implied that I should lose my ponytail (it’s more of a messy “editor” bun and I consider it my signature look.) Whatever. I have my thing…
Thank you Donna, Nels and Cynthia for commenting on my comment. I’m especially irritated by Cynthia’s experience, because I looked at your blog and you’re very pretty. I dislike GOMI for many reasons but the main one is that the comments are so very bitchy. I can’t see how telling someone they should be headless is “constructive criticism”.
There’s a difference between “her boobs are droopy” and “that dress makes her boobs look droop.”
And I think fit is an issue among fashion bloggers. Instead of addressing the body type they have, they stuff themselve in too small outfits.
I think the goal of a fashion blogger is to reimage “fashion” outfits into work able every day outfits and I think “the outfit looks better on the model” is a good critism because it indicates that the blogger failed to translate the outfit.
I had never heard of GOMI, but I’ll check it out. I’m not a fan of negative, critical “feedback”, either. I started my blog because I know many women who want to look nice but aren’t that confident about putting make-up on or knowing what looks good on them. I’m not a pro, and never claimed to be, but I’m comfortable with beauty and fashion, so I thought I’d share.
I think it’s important to remember that there are many reasons why people blog, and who they’re blogging for. And there is a huge variety of people who read style blogs, so the opinion of a few may not accurately represent the opinions of the majority. To each their own is my view. If I’m not impressed by a blog, I simply don’t follow it. No need for anything else, IMO.
I actually like this site, i just found out about it from this article but i’m reading post post on there, and there is something to be said about some bloggers who really are on a high horse. I can’t get with it, I do like some of the blogs that she mentions on there, because i think it’s fine to have different types of blogs, but like the DIY post she did, it’s like I hate to see a DIY blog and they are half a**ing everything or not mentioning how complicated things are. Or the cosmetics post with that company that practivally bullies bloggers. Not sure how that works, but I see it a lot. I don’t know i think there are certain people that just don’t fall for anything, and aren’t kissing the feet of certain bloggers because they don’t like the tone or the way they deal with people, but I think i’ll still stop in from time to time and read this blog.
I’ve had a blogger friend featured before on GOMI, who was insulted quite well for trying out a new trend. While not at all biased, as they do make some very good points, (such as the fact that criticism doesn’t mean envy — a card that a lot of girls like to play, when they’re criticised) the comments area is where all mean-ness explodes and breaks loose. There, even ridiculous things like a blogger’s body can be torn to shreds, without any tact. I have mixed feelings about GOMI, but I guess the best thing to do with blogging is to improve yourself, without losing your self-esteem.
I’ve honestly never heard about GOMI but I’m definitely going to take a look around now!
Thank you so much for shedding light on a topic like this Taylor 🙂
Very Interesting. Definitely going to check this out. It’s probably saying the same stuff I always say. I’m not always into the style bloggers cuz they all feel the same. Skinny white girl with too much money and time on their hands that loves the camera. Yes they are more often pretty and very stylish but I don’t see any other contribution to the fashion world. Fashion is all about stirring up the pot…and style bloggers, don’t stir, they simmer in the same stew.
Not all bloggers are “skinny white girls.” I probably have about 50 blogs on my reading list and a good handful are Asian (especially beauty bloggers). And some of us just take pictures of ourselves in what we consider regular, every day clothing.
But you’re missing the point I think. I’m sure those bloggers exist, but they aren’t the ones making a career out of taking pictures of themselves.
They aren’t the ones who get called on to appear in magazines or collaborate with brands. Honestly, that’s a symptom of fashion’s inherent racism and has nothing to do with the bloggers themselves, but it’s telling that there is a very real class distinction between the everyday bloggers and the “super bloggers”.
And yes, they tend to be “skinny white girls”. Unfortunate, but true.
As a Canadian and niche size blogger, I’m probably not going to be contacted for any sort of collaboration anyway (the only Canadians I can think of who get contacted for anything major at all are Tommy Ton (Asian and male, btw) and the girls of The Coveteur), but your comment on being “sure” non-white style bloggers exist is all kinds of wrong (basically, you’re implying that I don’t exist nor do some of the bloggers that GOMI points out in their petite thread). Just saying.
Cate, I took your message saying that you were “sure” that non-white fashion bloggers exist as you not thinking that they exist/never really seen them, so I told you that *I* existed.
Wait, I think I’ve misunderstood you.
I’m saying that you don’t exist by acknowledging that you exist? By saying that it’s unfortunate that more people outside the “skinny/white” demographic aren’t targeted for fashion branding?
I’m honestly confused, and I’d like to understand your point better.
I’m going to be honest and I’m really not trying to play the race card here. But you saying that you follow 50 blogs, and only a mere ten percent of them are not white (and only asian, not black or latina or anything else) doesn’t really prove to anyone that most bloggers are not “skinny white girls.”
Where did I say 10%?
sorry 🙂 You said a handful, which I took to mean five. Five out of fifty is ten percent, so that’s where I got that from lol.
Like several that posted before me: I hadn’t hear of GOMI. It sounds interesting enough to check out. I can say without reading that bloggers should be “real” and keep it “real”. There’s enough fake crap on tv and in ads. I like to tune into real fashions on real people. Not just people playing dress up in something they’d never wear. So, I could see why they’d get called out. However, it’d be nice to keep it friendly and help support other bloggers. Comment with your thoughts but keep them clean.
I’ve never heard of GOMI, but I think I’m going to check it out more now. I haven’t been “caught” by them just yet (fingers crossed that I never will) but I have to wonder what “out of touch” really means – we all have different realities, so what one considers an acceptable amount of money to spend might not be so for another. I mean to me, $100 on a pair of shoes is pretty reasonable, but someone else would see that as expensive.
Should also add this:
Looks like I’ve made the GOMI list…. found a few of my pics there! Dunno if I should be celebrating or not…LOL
I wasn’t aware of this site before now. I’m very conflicted. I’m also disappointed to know Tanvi and Heather, two bloggers I follow and consider friends, have been targeted by the site.
While I agree with a lot of points made in the interview – especially the idea that the fashion blogging industry needs to be humanized – I feel like the site’s tone may impede the mission. Basically, I wonder how this is any different from bullying.
Society’s cavalier attitude toward emotional sensitivity is the reason why so many people have been driven to take their own lives. That’s what bullying is, isn’t it? An act of superior behavior which disregards another person’s well-being, either physically or emotionally? Likewise, I’m disappointed to see the word “hate” being used so casually in the span of this interview. Is this really something we want to promote? I know a majority of society is…I’ll say, “blessed with an unwavering backbone”, but there’s still a percentage like myself who live with hypersensitivity and whose fear of being unjustly mocked, criticized or otherwise bullied can govern their lives. It may be a quiet minority, but the people in it still matter. To be hurt by something that another person considers harmless isn’t a choice. And to be told to simply “Get over it” doesn’t magically make life better.
Lancelle says, “There’s a fine line between being real and trying to be real.” I agree with this and I understand this, but this is where life isn’t so easy because who among us is entitled to decide what the definition of “real” actually is? Obviously our own opinions alone don’t hold that ability because I’m sure Tanvi and Heather thought what they were doing was real. Our opinions allow us to decide what’s real for us. To think they allow us to decide what’s real for the rest of the world is a pretty privileged concept, isn’t it?
I know I sound all rainbows and unicorns here, and I know that’s a lot less fun than calling people out on behavior we think they should be called out on, but it’s overall a lot more helpful. And it’s a little less sad. Like I said, I agree with the message trying to be relayed, but by presenting it in this way it just may not get across so well. That said, I’d love to see IFB pursue more content that promotes behavior that’s a little more socially positive.
So, because you’re hypersensitive, everyone has to accomodate your fragility?
You’re an adult. You can control your surroundings. Put on your big girl pants and toughen up.
If someone kills themselves because of negative press about their blog, I have a feeling there is more going on with them than just that.
Thank you so much Casee for your kind comments. Many of the comments and threads on GOMI are very unpleasant, most certainly they’d fall into bullying. The only good thing is the comments are at GOMI, and the only way to know what they’re saying is to go look. I would encourage anyone who’s blog has targeted not to let curiosity get the better of them. Lancelle feels that “GOMI commenters are by and large educated, savvy blog readers.” and that the site is all about constructive criticism, but that’s not at all what I saw when I was over there looking around.
I feel that there is a world of difference between GOMI and the events that lead up to many teens taking their lives. To compare a forum that comments on bloggers outfits to Megan Meier for example is just so messed up.
Also, I understand people are hypersensitive but generally speaking, they’re not the ones putting themselves out there.
Finally, I think bloggers in general have no one but their selves to blame for not creating an atmosphere where comments feel comfortable enough to leave less than positive feedback. Bloggers may say they welcome such less-than-steller feedback but even up ahead you have bloggers who’ve been mentioned on GOMI redirecting comments about a certain outfit or how they pose to be personal comments about their looks or personality.
After going to the site and reading some posts, comments, and forum threads, I don’t see any value in this site for me. They seem to know EVERYTHING about some of the bloggers – way more than I have time to learn. I’m too busy living to “hate follow” someone, or to read posts that don’t appeal to me. What they said they do in your interview didn’t seem to exist much on the site. It just seemed like bashing. Really, aren’t there more important things that need to be done? I love sarcastic humor, but there isn’t much true humor there – just petty meanness.
I had to go check out your site, you know, so I can read it obsessively, learn everything about you, and tell you how you should wear your hair, criticize your fashion choices, and just generally stalk you. 🙂
Seriously, I Love your site and I’m following you now. I truly enjoyed looking at the affordable looks. And I see that you have a lot of followers, so obviously you’re doing something right.
I totally agree with this!! I was talking with someone on GOMI and she goes “do you have a thread on here? Because you deserve one.” My response was “No, I don’t, but thanks for the compliment!” I mean, seriously, if you think it’s worth your time to sit around and talk about my blog – in a positive or negative light – that’s a huge compliment in my book!
It’s just mean spirited, if you don’t enjoy the blog, don’t visit the site.
And if you can’t take criticism, don’t visit the site, either.
To start a fashion blog takes a certain amount of spunk and subtle courage. GOMI is the perfect place for those who lack either. If I don’t like a blog I don’t follow it. Simple. It takes nothing to cut someone down.
You put it perfectly Romani.
I’m in two minds about this one. Because some fashion bloggers, really let the popularity go the their heads, and think that they are now ‘celebrities’ and can do and say whatever they like and still be loved for it just because they have a ‘really popular blog’.
Well, uh, no. Some blogs I’ve come across have been so insulting, materialistic, pathetic and self serving, it’s made me think twice about even wanting anything to do with blogging at all! I can’t help but think with some people – if I knew this girl in real life, I’d HATE them. And not in a mild dislike/we just don’t click kinda way – in the ‘you’re so bloody stuck up your own arse I can’t stand the sound of your voice’ kinda way.
So yes, I think the fear of being featured on a site like this might keep some people’s egos in check. Which can only be a good thing. If you’re willing to put yourself out there in the public eye, you have to take the criticism with the praise, be it justified or not.
I am a longtime lurker over at GOMI and the trend I noticed among threads on their forums, is that they are usually posted by someone who used to read the blog. I’m fortunate that I have a relatively unknown blog and my style is bland at best, but that said, I agree that it’s difficult to be made to feel like you have to have the latest, greatest all the time. I have no problem shopping at outlets and discount stores, which some well known bloggers have referred to as gross or just unfortunate. Isn’t that a tad out of touch in today’s economy?
I think that anytime you have readers who used to love you and now have no forum to tell you why they no longer feel the love (deleting disagreeable comments or flat out disabling comments) are going to take their opinion somewhere that it will be valued. That is the forum that GOMI provides. And seriously, the cat ladies are funny. Everyone needs that real friend that can tell you not to wear that lumpy shirt or flat out, “NO, this is my birthday party and you are not allowed to stop the festivities to take your vapid, vain outfit photos here.” I have friends like that in real life and GOMI friends on the internet. I love them both and they bring me back to reality. That may also be why I have no readers, but meh.
When I attended IFB this past January, it was interesting to talk to other bloggers who also felt that companies send the exact same thing to all bloggers, or sponsor all the same bloggers. We just can’t say that to each other in our blogs because then we are labeled as jealous cat ladies, but the reality is that it looks fishier that the same 10 bloggers got the exact same shoes or bag or jeans. That is out of touch with reality. My friends and I go shopping together and maybe once a year we might get the exact same item, because it was a free GWP. Designers launch entire lines twice a year, can’t they pick an assortment of pieces to send to their bloggers? If we say that to a designer, we aren’t exactly building a relationship with them, are we?
At the end of the day, I’m glad that there is a place that feeds both my snark cravings and grammar nazi heart. Honestly, you are in pursuit OF something, not in pursuit FOR or pursuit TO anything! You guys are killing us, but we are just sorry, fat and jealous!
I have to go feed my cats now.
Constructive criticism or not, the comments made on GOMI are usually not that nice. You’d be crazy to say that you wouldn’t be upset if you were featured or talked about there. Unfortunately, if you’re going to voluntarily expose your thoughts or life or photos on the internet, you have to be prepared for negative commentary.
I’ll admit to reading the main GOMI site and lurking the forums. I think the criticism is valid when it calls out a lack of humility or self-awareness on the part of some bloggers. I find it less helpful when it dishes out a) appearance/body snark, or b) comments like, “she shouldn’t be blogging because she has no taste.” Because personal style IS objective, and part of the fun of fashion blogs is that people can express themselves without having to follow rigid rules.
I have a blog, myself, and would like to think that I’m humble and self-aware enough to a) accept valid criticism, and b)not attract the ire of the main GOMI site. But some folks on the forums would ABSOLUTELY savage my appearance, outfits and photos. And that would hurt! But if they find me, they find me. I’m not 25, gorgeous, stick thin, or dressed in head-to-toe Armani. If I’m criticized for that, I can take it with a grain of salt.
I’m not a fan of anything that inspires and encourages snarkiness.
I’ve been on GOMI a couple of times, and I must say my opinion was divided at first. Some of the things people were saying there truly made sense and as a new blogger I thanked my stars for knowing that blogging is not all niceties – MOST of them were just plain nasty.
I appreciate the fact that GOMI is a forum for people to really express their disillusionment in fashion bloggers – what with bloggers having their comments under moderation and sieving through each piece of criticism that is dished their way. Surely as people who are consciously putting ourselves, and/or our lives out in the open we as bloggers have it in us to take some amount of criticism in our stride – and with good reason.
But there is a way to respectfully put things across, and make someone understand a point. Taking digs at each other is in no way a good thing in my books. As has been mentioned in the interview, if the people commenting on the forums are ‘educated savvy bloggers’ then they must behave like educated savvy women, rather than frenzied teenagers talking in school hallways.
There is a large number of bloggers out there, and I’m sure if someone drops a blog from their list of reads, it’s about as easy to pick up another one and start following them. It’s no big deal if one person’s thought processes worked for you at one time, and don’t anymore. That’s how things work in real life too. But you move on. And this is only the internet, so why make a big deal of it.
I have no problems with the essence of GOMI, but the way that things are said is not correct by me, and I would surely want GOMI to, well, G-O-M-I.
i hadn’t heard of gomi before..i am on their site..starting for the last page..that’s 471 btw..i don’t see anyone i know..i must live under a rock..and i have been blogging for so long!
I feel like about 25% of the articles I’ve read on GOMI have valid points when a blogger is ‘out of touch’ or offensive. The rest of the time it just feels like they are attacking people for doing something they do not like. But the comments & forums tend to be truly awful.
And they always seem to know *so much* about the person they are criticizing. I do not read some of the blogs they’ve written about for the exact reasons they’ve mentioned. But instead of writing snarky articles to put people down I just stop following their blogs. It just seems like a lot of hate with very little to show for it.
Background: Never heard about GOMI until I read this post. Currently a fashion blogger. Never been featured on there.
Thoughts: GOMI is unnecessary. That pretty much covers everything I feel about it.
It seems to me like a lot of girls/women read blogs and think these things (e.g. “Wow what a strange pose? Doesn’t her neck hurt?” or “That’s barely a DIY”) But a majority of the content they post on GOMI goes beyond that; they question the bloggers’ intelligence, integrity, “realness” (whatever the fuck that is) etc.
And, although the interview frames the website as a tool for bloggers to “improve” and get “constructive criticism”, it’s a site that is dedicated to the uninsightful and often unwarranted bashing of random bloggers. The girls that write this blog sound like they’re 12, frankly. They pick at the smallest things. I read the commentary on The Daybook’s Confetti Post and I was so confused about what she did wrong…
What was the problem? Where is the constructive criticism? Where can she improve? It’s funny how they try to present it as something that is indirectly positive when it is is ABSOLUTELY NOT. If you’re going to be a bitch just say you’re a bitch. We need to move past this weird “tough love” mentality. Anyone that really cares about you will have the decency to talk to you on the side and actually go into detail about what you did wrong, what the intended and unintended consequences are, which are good/bad, and what you can do to improve, if you’d like to change. Barely anything they talk about on the site is “constructive.”
It’s hilarious that they would try to frame it in that way (as an outlet for “constructive criticism”) but, sorry, no dice.
What’s hilarious to me is you saying, “We need to move past this weird “tough love” mentality.” Are you serious? Our generation has been raised in the “self-esteem solves everything” mentality, to the point that we don’t even know what the hell tough love is (before you all jump on me for making a generalization, yes I know, it’s a generalization). More recent studies are showing how detrimental our culture of extreme coddling really is. GOMI is hardly tough love in the grand scheme of things…it just feels like it because we’re soft as butter.
And yet we want to be “internet stars” and feel entitled to never get criticism. Actual celebrities get a never-ending onslaught of criticism. It’s not fair, but neither are their ridiculous salaries. Life isn’t fair. We do the best we can, but entitlement is never something to encourage.
When it becomes a site purely constructive criticism, come find me. Until then, I still think it’s bullshit.
I agree with you that some of these bloggers are out of touch but they don’t need “tough love”, they need “strategic love.” If they read an article about how shitty they dress/look/write/seem that’s not going to magically change them. They’ve obviously been molded into the way they are by media and our consumerist culture. Walking up to an idiot and saying YOU’RE AN IDIOT won’t change them.
I understand your point, but I urge you not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There’s a lot of good in GOMI, even if you have to do a little digging. Yes this site could be a LOT less catty and a LOT more strategic, but at the moment, this is what we have, so let’s deal with it. It doesn’t help to ignore it.
Since it was inevitable that some kind of site like this would emerge in reaction to fashion blogging, I agree that ideally it should have been a more mature site. Hopefully one day there will be a site like that, or hopefully GOMI is self-aware enough to take its own advice and listen to criticism from us, but until then, let’s learn to sort the useful criticism from the useless rather than labeling it all useless (to our own detriment).
And btw, I think the criticism of the daybook confetti post, at least the way I took it, was that she littered on the earth just to get a cute photo for her blog – when you think about it objectively, that’s pretty out-of-touch. GOMI writes up snarky posts for fun, but a legit point is in there.
I think I would have been more forgiving if she at least mentioned that she cleaned up the confetti, though how on earth she might have done that, I don’t know… It would have been smarter of her to throw the confetti inside so she could just sweep it up, but littering doesn’t appear to concern her. I am giving constructive criticism here, and no, I’m not in the least bit jealous of this daybook girl. I don’t even read her blog or know who she is.
All valid points. I think we agree. No more thoughts to share. Lol.
I once was featured in a GOMI comment because I made a mistake in a comment! I called somebody a flamingo dancer instead of a Flamenco dancer (read, I am not a native English speaker)! My mistake but I am glad that I could give some hilarious moments to the world and to the GOMI readers! This means that there are a lot of people putting their time into reading comments and other stuff! In other words, they do read blogs because they don’t like them (interesting phenomenon I should say)! Sometimes I think it is a little bit too black and white but I understand the frustration. I don’t have a rare talent but I am on the internet with my blog anyway, I just like to dress myself in a specific way. But I think GOMI is right by saying that a blogger should be real and sincere!
Though I agree with the essence of GOMI (stop rampant consumerism and the classist attitudes), I can’t help but feel sad about the results.
I love that there is a deep examination of privilege, but it is upsetting to see that couched in so much sexism – especially in the comments. The number of times the women being profiled are called ‘cunts’ and other awful names is disturbing. Perhaps the editors could call the sexist remarks into question and keep the tone to calling out privilege rather than name calling?
That being said, I’d love to see an evolution in fashion + lifestyle blogging that can celebrate fashion as an art rather than an obsession – an art that is self-reflective and aware of its own privilege. It’s something I struggle with daily (having a startup that focuses on shopping – I hope to help people shop smarter and more responsibly, but we, too, can fall into the ‘OMG, I need these shoes’ moments).
Very cool that you interviewed Lancelle and covered this. I get what they are trying to do.
Dear IFB, I love you, but I hate that you covered this. I personally avoid it as much as possible… it’s a terrible, meanspirited site and it does not deserve our attention! Just my own opinion!!
I agree with Grace. This just gives them more page hits and more attention. Just like with blog posts that I don’t like, I’m not going to read something that I can’t relate to. Actually even if there weren’t so much nastiness, I doubt I’d read GOMI because I don’t know the bloggers that they’re criticizing and I’m not as into the blogs as they are. I’m still amazed by how much they know about some bloggers!
To be fair, the hate mail that they received and posted was not just nasty, it was scary! Even if someone criticized me, I wouldn’t wish their family dead.
All in all, the whole thing is too mean and negative, and like others have said, there is a better way to handle it. Criticism that is said in such a nasty way just makes people defensive and accomplishes nothing.
It’s always been my vision to talk about what’s affecting the blogging community whether I agree with it or not. GOMI is obviously affecting the community, for better or worse.
As a community site, I think that IFB shouldn’t censor certain topics just because they’re “mean” or “taboo”. And a little side note, I saw a few references to race in comments above and personally, I think IFB should cover racial issues a little more! I almost never see articles about the various problems the fashion blog community has as it pertains to race.
I second this, Crystin. After seeing many GOMI posts call out the most ignorant comments that fashion bloggers have made, I really don’t know what to think…is this a reflection of the general type of person who tends to fashion blog? (thus reinforcing the stereotype that people interested in fashion are vapid, uneducated, self-absorbed princesses)…is it a reflection of our society in general?…
Either way, many fashion bloggers appear to need some serious schooling in classism, racism, and bigotry in general (and I’m not just basing this on the few bloggers that GOMI targets).
Some tall, thin, white, blonde fashion bloggers may get defensive at the mention of “white privilege”, but that doesn’t make its reality go away. This is not about blaming them for what they can’t control or victimizing those who don’t fit the mold, but simply acknowledging that some people have certain advantages, whether it’s fair or not. Only then can we proceed to have a mature discussion about what bloggers of all different backgrounds can do to promote a more egalitarian perspective.
Fashion is a part of culture, and therefore issues affecting culture affect fashion. IFB should Not ignore this, we can have a mature, intelligent discussion about it. Raising awareness is never futile.
I’d say that would be a smart way of turning what people see as GOMI’s “negativity” (which in most cases is actually valid criticism) into something positive.
Sarah, this is perhaps one of my favorite comments ever left on IFB. You have presented yourself and your opinion so thoughtfully and eloquently, I just want to say “Bravo!”
Sarah! I love this comment because you didn’t insult anyone and yet you presented your argument in a valid manner. I agree with Taylor, this is one of my all-time favorite comments!
Well thanks, Ladies, I appreciate that! And Taylor – I appreciate that IFB is open to hearing comments like this. I love that you actually listen and respond to your readers! That’s pretty rare and it’s what keeps me coming back.
“Either way, many fashion bloggers appear to need some serious schooling in classism, racism, and bigotry in general (and I’m not just basing this on the few bloggers that GOMI targets).”
All of this. This is the reason why I can overlook all the snark on GOMI. because at the end of the day, in between all the snark, they have a POINT.
While I do think that it’s nice to have a place to discuss the ethical problems that often arise in lifestyle and fashion blogging, most of the posts at Get off My Internets seem more mean spirited/bordering on jealousy rather than constructive. I definitely agree with many of their sentiments, especially with those that point out the problems with shameless materialism and advertising, but I think the posts could be written with a little more tact. I’ve written on the subject several times, but I try not to name names, even if I have a certain blogger in mind.
Although I think that it’s possible the posts are mean-spirited (depending on your point of view) I wouldn’t say that the posts are bordering on jealousy. Unless of course you’re talking about the forums and not the main website. As a fashion blogger, I don’t think we should expect everyone to be all nice and courteous and respectful 100% of the time. It is the internet after all. Of course sites like this are going to exist.
Re 1: while there are some “crazies” on GOMI (just like there are some “crazies” on fashion blogs…the internet is not some black-and-white place where there are a cluster of “good people” and a cluster of “bad people”), MOST of the so-called “rumors” have links to external sources to back their insight. If the comment is a speculation, usually the commenter will SAY SO.
Re 2: I don’t know if you “never” delete negative commentary, but you’ve edited and deleted WHOLE posts when there was too much backlash. Yeah, technically you didn’t delete the comments…you just deleted the entire post + comment thread.
Also, one of these posts you’ve modified/deleted was concerning how your blog was way more realistic THAN OTHER BLOGGERS prancing around in the grassy fields for outfit pictures. Following your own advice, shouldn’t you have left these constructive criticisms ON THEIR BLOGS instead of being “spineless” and smirking on your own website about how you’re doing it better? Shouldn’t you be writing to fashion magazines telling them they’re out of touch with reality?
Finally, GOMI IS the fashion police of bloggers in a sense (in addition to many other purposes)…but I guess it feels a bit more like bullying when they’re discussing how YOUR outfit doesn’t match huh?
I want to point out that most of these comments are referring to the forums, NOT what Lancelle and PartyPants write on the main website. While the forums can be quite harsh once in a while, the main website is essentially how Lancelle describe it as…a good way to keep blogger accountable of their own actions. Don’t be a backpedaling hypocrite or steal other people’s money (yes, bloggers can be quite evil too! GOMI has covered this topic multiple times), and you won’t end up on the official GOMI.
I’ve been negatively criticized many times on other websites (not GOMI, but just as harsh). The first time that happened I got hurt, then over time I realized either I take those comments into consideration and keep blogging, or don’t get over it and delete my blog. I chose the first route. Not everyone likes you in real life, so why expect everyone to like you on the internet? It’s not going to happen.
PS. Cyberbullying is making death threats and wishing someone harm, not a simple comment of “oh she’s so annoying!”. Refer to some of the hate mail PP gets for being associated with GOMI here: http://getoffmyinternets.net/2012/because-i-promised-some-gomi-hate-mail/ …anti-GOMI people seem to be a bit more crazy with the negative language than GOMI itself.
You make a really good point. I haven’t delved into the comments, so I can’t speak for how harsh they are, but the posts themselves strike me as very garden variety. Constructive crits with a bit of snark thrown in for entertainment purposes.
THANK YOU for this article, IFB! I appreciate that even if GOMI grinds your gears, you’re still willing to write about it. I have been going through their archives the past couple days, and honestly I must say I think this site is awesome.
I’m not a snarky person, I honestly don’t enjoy gossip, and this is typically not the kind of site I would care for, but as a fashion blogger who is tired of the clique-ish culture of entitlement so rampant in the fashion blogosphere, I do think this site is NECESSARY for calling it out. Yes some posts and comments get out of hand, but that’s no reason to dismiss the good ones – like the one that called Modcloth out on its disgusting cultural misappropriation (will not be shopping there again), the ones that call out the ignorance, classism, and racism of some bloggers, and yes even the one that called out IFB (as much as I love you guys) for promoting the RIDICULOUS “anyone who criticizes you must be jealous” mentality.
As other commenters mentioned, it’s exactly that kind of egoistic culture that created a need for GOMI, and so I appreciate that they try to keep us in check. I am actually learning a Lot from their site about what not to do, learning from other people’s mistakes, and it’s making me approach my blogging in a way that’s more self-aware.
Perhaps this is easier for me because I haven’t been hurt by them (yet), but I also think that any intelligent (i.e. not all rainbows and unicorns) blogger will not simply dismiss GOMI as a bully site. It’s simple: just ignore the relatively few bully posts and comments, and pay attention to the ones that have legit things to say. I agree with Lancelle that many of the readers (not all, for sure) seem pretty intelligent.
In conclusion, our generation is a bunch of softees, and it’s doing us more harm than good. We need a good kick in the pleated pants once in a while. Ya it hurts, but then we toughen up and move on. We need to step outside the fashion bubble sometimes and realize there’s more to life. I love fashion blogging, but it’s so easy to get lost in it, and I appreciate GOMI for the reminder to maintain perspective and self-awareness. Criticism is not always a bad thing.
GOMI, you can SOMI!
When I started my blog, I went into it knowing that there was a chance I’d get some harsh criticism or that people wouldn’t like my outfits/body/whatever else. For the most part, fashion blogging is a positive atmosphere, but I mean, shouldn’t you expect to be called out or even hated from time to time? If you see yourself on GOMI, I’m sure it stings a bit but umm…didn’t we kind of sign up for this?
I think it is a forum for mean girls to be just that. The end.
What I have found is that when someone is called out on GOMI, it is usually in a half-accurate Rush Limbaugh sort of way to get people riled up and the snarking begins. When someone tries to defend a person, they get called a white knight and are bullied for their opinions.
Some of the forums will have good feedback for people and good discussion follows, but this really is not the norm. To me it seems like the forum commenters keep coming back picking on every little thing as a way passively show certain bloggers that they are hated. That they are providing a service is a rationalization.
Used to love GOMI and to a certain point, I still do. The site itself is pretty great. Party Pants and Lancelle seem to do a good job generating an interesting conversation. Criticism isn’t a bad thing, and a lot of what they point out about certain bloggers is valid. The ladies that post on those articles tend to be fairly intelligent and have decent opinions as well, making it somewhat worthwhile for both a blogger and blog reader to read.
The forums are an entirely different matter,tho. They are unmoderated, which is fair, but OMG they are so gross. I say this purely as a blog reader, as I am not a blogger myself, and I have read GOMI for well over a year now.
Sure there are a few blogs out there that I don’t care for, but the posts about these bloggers on the GOMI forums have crossed the line from intelligent criticism to downright scary, insane, incoherent, stupid-hate. That’s all I can say. It is like we’re in grade school again.
Some of the posters appear to be completely obsessed with the bloggers that they do not like, and it shows. I’m all for not liking someone, but I am not going to sit on a forum and dredge up why I hate that blogger time and time again, what’s the point? How is that healthy? Or sane? It isn’t.
Groupthink has also taken hold, and like Markel said anyone who tries to reason or stick up for a blogger immediately gets called out as a white knight. Um so let me get this straight…we’re hating on bloggers because they moderate their comments to only show the nice comments that they receive…yet we are now creating a forum with an atmosphere where people can ONLY say bad things? Anyone with an opposing opinion gets called out? Huh, that’s so weird! Sounds so familiar!
I used to enjoy reading and participating in the forums because there were quite a few intelligent posters with interesting opinions. We’d snark a bit, but talk about other things too, and all opinions were welcomed.
Not the case anymore, and the irrational, obsessive-hate that goes on as made even me, someone who enjoys a little bit of snark, have to step away and stop reading. I just cannot deal with that much negativity, not even for a minute.
GOMI (the site) is worth a read for bloggers, but stay away from the forums – it’s just a big time suck of hate.
The thing I think is hilarious about GOMI is what other commenters have already pointed out: if they hate these blogs so much why do they spend so much time obsessing over them? I mean, I want GOMI to get off my internet – so I don’t go there anymore. Sha boom! Problem solved!
Never heard of GOMI, but just checked them out. I don’t see how they are any different from us. We critique fashion faux pas, and they critique us for criticizing people. Who are we to criticize, the question is– who are they? Most people that hate fashion is because they are afraid of it. But every woman and man wants to like fashion and be attractive to someone. I beg to differ that people would want otherwise.
I agree with the fact some bloggers go for freebies, or just show-off about the things they possess, which is a huge No-No. You must have a passion for this and some educational background on it. To be a great teacher, first and foremost, you must be an excellent student.
Personally, I like to target all income levels, especially during this recession. But I feel there are just the same as the bloggers they criticize (trying to make a living through a website) and that doesn’t make them honest, if anything, it makes them quite hypocritical.
I think it is hard to look at yourself in an unflattering light, specially after someone has pointed out your short comings. But more so when your fame is contingent upon your audience loving you and believing you are perfect.
Bloggers who will say,’I will never do this’ and later do that exact same thing, are the targets here. I am a GOMI reader (lurker more or less) and her blogs aren`t out of line. She points out the sad truth that some bloggers will manipulate their audiences, insult and even deprive their readers of contest entry so the ‘blogger’ could win it.
Having the presence of mind to actually catch what you have done wrong and rectify it will make you a better blogger. I think the snarky comments and even threats come from the people who feel ‘bullied’ because they were called on their crap.
The good bloggers can clearly be divided by how they take the constructive criticism and who gets offended.
Ok, I’m going to confess: I actually like GOMI, and can appreciate the forums. Yeah, it can be a bit mean and snarky. I found out about it because someone tipped me off that my blog was mentioned on it- and yup it was, and it was being bagged- and you know what? My ego stung a bit- it’s hard to read words critiquing your blog, the way you dress, or look, or write, but guess what? I put myself out there, on the interwebs, and that’s the risk you take.
So I stepped up, logged in and responded. Someone said I was a horrible person and “couldn’t stand me.” But most appreciated the fact that I went on and responded.
It’s just like REAL LIFE. People talk shit. It’s up to you to take the truth and apply it, and leave the rest on the chatroom floor.
So my lovelies: get over it. I’m sorry that some folks said some horrible things about you- reminds me of highschool. Well, you survived high school, so trust me, you can survive the barb slung by strangers. And if there’s some good advice in those stings, (believe me, there is tons of good advice there) please by all means, apply it to your blog!
I had no clue about the site till you linked them here. Thank you for 30 mins of chortles. I’ll go there when I’ve got time on my hands and need a giggle. They’ve basically got the balls (and excess ATP apparently) to shout out what everyone else is thinking. Its the Regretsy of non-application oriented blogging. Hilarious.
That place is a cesspool. I mean, are you serious? People say things on the forums that they would never say to people in real life. Let’s see these snarks put their real names out if they are so brave.
Oh, really? Attaching their names to their posts would suddenly make the commenters brave, you say? Why? Is it because crazies, like yourself perhaps, would feasibly be able to track them down?
GOMI wouldn’t even exist if bloggers themselves were ‘brave’ enough to let critical comments through. I think it’s great that not everyone will act as sheep to these herders, so to speak.
I read this post when it went live but haven’t posted ’til now because I needed some time to think. First, after reading this interview I checked out GOMI for the first time. I have to say that, although Lancelle was quite convincing in the interview, what I found in GOMI’s forums was not constructive criticism but instead name-calling, personal attacks, speculation, and a lot of stuff that looked like it had been pulled straight from a 10th grade burn book.
I wanted to comment then, but realized I had a lot more to say than would fit in a comment here. I ended up writing a post about it, which will go live Friday. I will post a link as a reply to this comment when it does. I’d love anyone who believes GOMI to be more than bullying to read my post and layout your counter argument in the comments there. I look forward to a healthy debate. But, in my opinion, GOMI is nothing more than a free-for-all of cyber bullying.
I personally think it’s absolutely revolting and disgusting how these women act. Shame on them. Just a bunch of cat ladies in their basement with boxes of wine and dissing on bloggers they are pretty much jealous over.
I wish nothing but sadness on Alice.
GOMI is awful. It doesn’t provide constructive criticism, just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Out of curiosity I spent a few minutes there, sampling comments. I won’t be returning. I have much better ways to use my time.